Working Class Acts
Candid conversations with working class actors navigating the entertainment industry.
Working Class Acts
Dan Wilson
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
On this week's episode I sit down with the wonderful and talented, Dan Wilson. We discuss everything from our recent Shakespeare work to our intense nostalgia for Blockbuster.
If you're looking for handmade wooden home decor then my Etsy shop is perfect for you! For a look at my catalog go to: JohnMadWoodworking.Etsy.com
You can find more info about my work as an actor and voiceover artist on my website at: www.johnmaddaloni.com
Thanks for listening to this week's episode. Be sure to rate the show, enable automatic downloads and, if you're interested in becoming a donor, you can go to workingclassacts.com and press the support button at the top right corner of the page to donate today!
This is a cold read of French Without Tears by Terence Radigan, in which I will be reading lines from the play, and Mr. Dan Wilson will be improvising around those lines. I will be playing Jacqueline. He'll be a version of Diana. Yeah. It will be a Diana. A Diana. Here we go. Hello!
SPEAKER_01Aren't you aren't you getting dressed? Of course I am. Just give me a second. Oh, do you like it? Oh, what you're wearing? It's fantastic. I mean, that color on you is so flattering. Oh, I suppose my hair's wrong. No, no, no, no, no, darling. It's perfect. Don't change a thing. I've got something to say to you, Diana.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_00Do you mind if I say it now?
SPEAKER_01Uh, well, we're kind of in a rush, um, but I guess. Yeah, go ahead. We have like two minutes.
SPEAKER_00If you look in that basket over there, you'll find a needle and thread.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but what does that have to do with anything?
SPEAKER_00Oh, but you needn't trouble. Okay.
SPEAKER_01We don't have time for this, but I'm looking in the basket.
SPEAKER_00I've overheard your conversation with the commander this afternoon.
SPEAKER_01Do we have to get into this now? Because we're supposed to be at brunch.
SPEAKER_00I heard you say that you were in love with the commander. I and that you didn't love Kit.
SPEAKER_01I never okay, what I said was. What I said was that the commander has some very fine qualities. I I could see him being a great partner.
SPEAKER_00I I I wanted to know if you were going to tell Kit that you didn't love him. I l I do love Kit. What are you saying? Yes. Well you did. You've known for some time, and you've had a lot of fun out of it. Yeah. I have. Thank you. Ow!
SPEAKER_01Stop. Freaking me out.
SPEAKER_00Are you going to tell him?
SPEAKER_01I'm I there's nothing to tell. Why do you keep driving this?
SPEAKER_00I shall then.
SPEAKER_01Jacqueline. Jacqueline, you forced my hand.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's true, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01I want to get into this right now because it's really sensitive for me and we don't have time. We're supposed to be at brunch.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much. That's splendid. So you want to leave Kit alone?
SPEAKER_01You know, Kit's such a sweet guy. He's just I'm just not feeling there's no vibes anymore. I'm just not feeling it. But you don't. I have to go with my gut. But what about the commander? You know, have you seen Love is Blind? It's like on Love is Blind. Sometimes you're vibing with somebody and you just don't know what you want, and then somebody else just comes in and sweeps you off your feet from behind the weird lava wall, and you just Oh, that's a horrid word. What, lava wall? Oh no, I don't deny that at all. You know, Jacqueline, I actually there's a big weight off my chest now that I've said this. I I really I was trying to keep it a secret, but it it probably is better that that we just we just you know w w rip the band-aid off, as it were, a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Well what you call my gifts are at any rate social. Yours are definitely antisocial. And that's a reading from French Without Dears. I was like that Lionel button this scene, for sure. For sure. That was very good, Dan. Thank you. That actually worked probably the best cold read is ever gone.
SPEAKER_01You know, I I was really waiting for it to go completely off the rails. But it actually stuck pretty evenly. I'm a little disappointed. You wanted it to be more chaotic. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes you have to improvise the scene you're in. Yeah, no. Sometimes it can just be, sometimes it's just real. Exactly. Welcome to Working Class X. Hello, and welcome to the Working Class Acts Podcast. I'm your host. Dan knows. You heard him just there, but this person that I am with right now is a lovely, lovely human being and a wonderful performer. And finally, we just got to act together for the first time, like within the past month. He is an actor, director, writer, and filmmaker living happily in New York City. His favorite acting credits include Under the Greenwood Tree, the Flea Theater, a workshop of the Backeye, City Company, Hamlet, Shakespeare Theatre Co. in the fan uh MFA program, and his recent short films are Hero Work and Cool Dad. Dan is currently directing a short film about a pregnant art thief planning her biggest heist, and has been workshopping a new adaptation of Twelfth Night with Living Room Productions, which is where we got to work for the first time. It's Dan Wilson, everybody. Hey, Dan is here. Oh dude, I'm so happy you're here. This is gonna be so fun. Um, but yeah, we got we got to work for the first time together on 12th night, which was so fun. Like the workshop we did the other week was it was really cool, really, really interesting. Um, I don't know how much we can talk about it. I don't like I don't want to give anything away because it's a great premise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. But we don't have to go in depth. Um, but just to say, so I I I know I could share that in my bio because um I asked Ellen, who runs the workshop and is is uh the founder and artist director of Living Room Pro Productions, um, along with uh Laura and Sue, um, I believe are her both of her collaborators in that. Um and anyway, she was like, Yes, you can mention it.
SPEAKER_00Um, because I have I just haven't said like a lot about it because I think the premise is cool.
SPEAKER_01It's a really cool premise. Um Ellen has done an incredible job. Yeah. Um and uh and hearing a few different versions of it has been really cool. And then finally like getting to work with her as a director has been really sweet.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. We just last night were we're both very tired today. Uh we were up late doing another reading for another play last night uh through Living Room Productions, which has been really it that community has just been so fun to get together with.
SPEAKER_01It's it's like so fun. You know, it's really the idea of getting together for readings and stuff is really nice, and I've tried to make that happen in the past more casually. It's hard to do, and it's also like so group dependent, I think. Yeah, yeah. And like you can have people who individually are lovely and you love hanging out with, but it like the group dynamic may not quite and I think what um what Ellen and company have kind of not curated because they're not like like meticulously selecting people, but just like the people they know and the people that they bring in. Yeah, um, it's been a really nice energy every time. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So, Dan, yeah, tell me, bring me back to the beginning. Show me where were you when you came into this world. Um where were you born is the question. Oh, this the literal world. Or just like into the world.
SPEAKER_01Where did you grow up? Um yeah, short version. Um a lot of parts, but um, I was born um just north of New York City, actually, uh in in Westchester County, in Mount Kisko, New York. Okay. Um and uh I don't remember it at all. We moved when I was like most of us don't remember when we were born. Yeah, but like I didn't even get a chance to remember Mount Kisko because we moved out very quickly. Um my my mom's work kind of had us move around a lot. Oh um, and so we moved to uh I think Washington DC next, which I barely, barely remember that house, and then like kind of rural New Jersey. Um and then when I was I think five about to turn six, we moved to Seattle, which is where I grew up.
SPEAKER_00Got you. Wow. So you just popped around a little bit and then all the way to the other end of the of the country. Yeah, totally. Exactly. Did you like Seattle? I loved Seattle. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I've never been. It was so nice. I mean, um, I think I think it's probably changed a lot, as most cities have, between since the 90s, you know. But like um, we lived in a really cool part of town. Um, I just have such fond memories. Like, we lived off of a main we lived off of Broadway. So if you know Seattle, if you're listening, we lived off of Broadway on Capitol Hill, like very close to the main strip of Broadway. Um, and we also lived really, really close then to Volunteer Park. Okay. And we actually had a little like back entrance to the park that like was like a little trail you can kind of sneak up into from where our um our house was. And so just being able to like walk to places in a in a city that like the neighborhoods are walkable, the city is not walkable in the same way New York is walkable. Sure. I think was really, really nice. Nice. So I have really fond memories of that. One of one of the highlights I remember is like um we used to do like movie nights um as a family uh when we could on Friday nights. Yeah. And we'd always we would always order pizza from Paliacchi Pizza. Oh, Paliacci. Which shout out, like, if you're in Seattle, you know, like it was at least at the time, it was like so incredible. Like you had to get Paliacchi. Yeah. And then and then there was a Hollywood video store.
SPEAKER_00Yes! Oh, I miss Hollywood videos so much.
SPEAKER_01And we could we would I would walk down with my dad on like a Friday after he got back from work, and we would go to pick out a a movie together, and then we'd walk back, and my mom would get home from work and we'd order pizza, and and um, and I think that is probably a good jumping off point because that is where I kind of fell in love with movies. Yeah, yes, and and the same year I think, or maybe the next summer, the Lion King came out. Oh my god, and um, I dragged my mom to see that in the theater like I don't know, three, four times that summer. And um I still have my probably not my first stuffed animal, but but um the oldest stuffed animal I still have is a cymbadol. Oh my god, yes. Um and um so I I just remember always loving like the feeling of being in a theater and the lights go down, and like just be f after the previews, but before the movie starts, there's like a moment of calm. Yeah, yeah, and it's dark, and it like the screen is black, and it's just this lovely little transition into like a whole other world. Yeah. That I think you get that in theater too, usually depending on how the decide to start the show. Yeah, yeah. Um, but but it just in film for whatever reason that's just hit like extra hard for me.
SPEAKER_00Totally. No, I totally feel that it's that lovely like anticipation of like what what world am I about to go into? And oh my god, Hollywood video, I miss Hollywood video so much because uh I had like the similar sort of like uh like that was like my home for like me and my brother and my just my family, like we'd go there all the time. We would like go to church and then we'd go and get like a bunch of movies from Hollywood video, and I miss it so much because it was like this like the Hollywood video near where I lived was like kind of grungy and just sort of like I mean they're not pretty establishments.
SPEAKER_01Like, and this is the thing is is that Blockbuster was obviously ubiquitous, yeah, yeah. Nothing wrong with Blockbuster, yeah, but like it always felt a little bit like um like kind of slapped together and plastic and like too clean. Yeah, yeah. Even down to like the coloring, like the blue and white was very sort of clinical almost. Yeah, it really was. Whereas Hollywood video was like white and black and red. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I I I might be making this up, but I remember there being like a really shitty carpet. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And like it's like people died in in these Hollywood videos, but no one gave a shit. They were like, it's like it had to be movie-related. Like this person watched a movie that was too good and died. But it yeah, there was something about it, it was just so like there was just it was so filthy, but also like you could find anything in a Hollywood video, and you just stumble across things.
SPEAKER_01And and I miss that more broadly in the streaming era that like you you can try and do that digitally through like going through catalogs, but then you have an algorithm that's trying to suggest stuff to you, and it's not the same. And I just I do kind of miss like in the way that you can still do it bookstores, yeah. You can kind of go to like whatever genre you're interested in and kind of just fumble through the title. Exactly. And I think you could do that at a video store in a way that was really fun, and like I don't know, I think we still not to get too woo-woo. I'm a little bit woo-woo, but like I think you you get like an energy from when you like pick something up.
SPEAKER_00Totally.
SPEAKER_01Um, and or like you you go in person and try on clothes, and it like it might look good, but how does it feel? Yes, it's like a really important thing. And I think you get a little bit the same thing by going to a library or a bookstore trying trying out how does it feel to hold this thing. Yeah. Um, that carries a certain energy. And I think um, yeah, I think it's like something that I don't I'm not nostalgic enough to want to like buy a DVD player and like buy like fill up my small apartment with a ton of DVDs. So many DVDs. I mean, good for you. Like, nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_00But I think there's so mad at me right now. What an idiot. Trying to cover it, but John. I just want to open my own Hollywood video, is essentially what I want to do. But that's so astute. I I never really thought about it. Like the the way that you go into like a bookstore or or like go to a clothing store and try stuff on it. Like, yeah, that that was exact it's the same exact premise, but it was for movies, and it it that just doesn't exist anymore. Not really.
SPEAKER_01No And you don't get um you don't get what one of my favorite things about DVDs and VHSs was you would get previews of other movies. Yes, yes. And and um, like again, before like any sort of algorithm in Netflix or HBO or whatever, like that would be how they'd be like, okay, let's pair this preview with this movie because they might, you know, and the studio could advertise their other stuff. And I think um you you just don't get that same thing. It's one of the things, again, that I like actually about going to the movies is the previews kind of like absolutely.
SPEAKER_00But what I loved about that too is like with the with with DVDs and rentals, like those previews are then on that DVD forever. So they don't they don't update or anything, obviously. But it's like it's a little time capsule though, which I I kind of love of just like, oh, these were the other movies coming out around this time.
SPEAKER_01These are the DVD menus and the music that they choose and the way they chose to like lay out the menu. Yeah. And it like it's such a it's such a thing that um like again, I'm I'm like we could talk about this for literally hours.
SPEAKER_00But no, but I'm like, I love it because I think there's just this one story. I don't think I've told this on here, but it's a reason why I love Hollywood video. And like uh so one day my dad and I went to go to Hollywood video, and I wanted to rent American Gangster. Okay. It's the Denzel Washington movie from a a while back. They didn't have it, and so my my dad was like, all right, they don't have it. And and then, but the guy behind the counter was like, you know, I could suggest something that's like American Gangster, and I was like, okay, what? He's like, you should watch number one gangster. If you've never seen number one gangster, it is like legit one of the most violent films, like grotesquely violent films I've ever seen. It's got Paul Bettney in it. Um Paul Bettney. He's fantastic. Yeah, like I love Paul Bettney. Um, but my dad, the I think the only reason why I was allowed to rent that movie was because Paul Bettney was in it, and my family were like huge um Knights Tale fans. And that was our first, he's so good in that movie as Chaucer. Um but that that just like it's still ingrained in my mind, this movie, like the the violence in it.
SPEAKER_01How old were you at the time? Oh, I was young. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I was like, I can't, I couldn't have been more than 14. Okay. I was like too too young.
SPEAKER_01Like kind of just old enough for most people to like maybe be able to handle it, but also yeah.
SPEAKER_00And my parents were chill enough that they were like, you can watch R-rated movies, it's fine. Like my dad my god, another story. My dad, when I finally was like, I'd like to watch Saving Private Ryan, he's like, Okay, you can watch this. It's an important film, but just know they use a lot of bad language in this movie. And to this day, um, he net he didn't say anything about like the D-Day invasion will be highly graphic and terrifying.
SPEAKER_01Just that the language was what it's so interesting.
SPEAKER_00It's so interesting. It's such a generational thing, I think.
SPEAKER_01Because I don't I I've never minded language in films. Yeah. Um I I've already cursed on this podcast. I will undoubtedly curse a lot more. Oh yeah. And um it's the but the things that got me were never the things people thought would get me. Like the language never bothered me, the the the themes I felt like I was already not always, but but from early on, pretty able to like deal with mature themes. Sure, sure. Um the thing that was most terrifying to me in a film for years and years was the uh kitchen scene with the Velociraptors from Jurassic Park.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's a great it's a it's a highly suspenseful scene. It's so well shot. I don't know how they did the dinosaurs so well in that film. And they and I feel like they've gotten worse in the whole other conversation we can get into, but like that scene is is genuinely scary. Yeah. And for me at least. And like the T-Rex in the rain chasing the car was never scary. It was just awesome for me. It was just wild. And and um but that for some reason, like the tension, yeah. It's not the like the thing is chasing you, it's the thing is looking for you, yeah. Highly intelligent and like is it gonna find you and the quiet of it of it all. It's like um the way they draw out the tension in that scene, I think, is really brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Also just like the way they the the raptors communicate with each other, with the like with the like the the talons and stuff, like it's the intelligence. Yeah, it it's and it's such small little things, but they it it it implies what you're saying, the intelligence of this creature. Uh oh my god, we could talk about this for ages. Um so anyway. Anyway, what where when did you get the bug?
SPEAKER_01So yeah, so when did you feel like in stages? I feel like I know a lot of people for whom it was like, I I went to see this play, or like I did my first show, and and I was hooked. Sure. And I think for me it was very gradual. Um, like so the we got the love of movies, Jurassic Park, Lion King, etc. Um, anything also by the way that John Williams um he's a genius. Like and he picks projects really, really well. Yeah, so like chances are it's a very good film and I love it. Um so but then I actually had terrible stage fright in elementary school, um, to the point that like I I just I I I didn't want to be anywhere near like being in front of people. And um in when I was in what fourth grade, fifth grade? I we had to be in the school play. Oh really? I think I was fifth grade. It wasn't made you do it? Yeah, it was because it was less like a drama club type thing. It was more like a class project. Sure, sure. Um and and it was I think part of the like sort of I've always gone to schools that were not explicitly art schools, but have a heavy arts component. Right. Which I think has been really good um for me. And so like they did a they did a weird, I don't know why they changed it because I think it's public domain, but they took Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and they changed it to Joe Knight and the Seven Serfs. I don't know if they were trying to teach us about medieval like uh like peasantry or like the feudal system, maybe they were Europe or something like that, yeah. Some commentary about like medieval Europe feeder and sort of like politics. Um I don't know, but that's what they did. Yeah, I was the mirror on the wall. Oh, classic. And it's a big part. It's a big part. Um well, it's a small part. So I was actually like, I can handle this. Sure, sure. And I'm only on for like one scene in the beginning. Yeah. Um I I sang one song.
SPEAKER_00Joe White. Joe Joe Knight.
SPEAKER_01Oh, Joe Knight. Um I sang one song to the theme of uh Old McDonald had a farm. Oh, classic. Um, and then I was offstage the rest of the day. Anyway, this was something I could handle. Um the school, it was like a small private school, they had an auction. Um, and one of the auction items was you could go to one of the parents' houses that had like a bigger living room, and there would be like a sort of buffet dinner, and you could watch the kids perform the as like an experience. Sure. So like raise money for the school. So we did that too. Um uh there was no backstage in that space to speak of, of course. Because it's someone's living room. So you're just standing off to the side. So um my parents came and they watched it, and they were really nice. And after the show, my mom pulled me aside and said, Oh my gosh, honey, you were so great. I'm so proud of you. By the way, did you know you were mouthing every other person's lines the entire play while you were standing off to the side? And I had no idea I was doing it. I had memorized the whole play.
SPEAKER_00That's so funny. But that's like uh that's that thing of like, you know, when you're young and you're first getting into it and stuff, and you you that's just one of those things, yeah, you know, like that like it hints at like how passionate you are about it. Like you knew the whole play.
SPEAKER_01And I think that was the first so like I tell that story because. I think even though it took me a lot longer to like fully commit to I want to do this as a as a lifestyle, as a career, I think that was the first point where I was like, oh, I have some aptitude for this. Sure. It's enjoyable. It's not as scary being on stage as I thought it would be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, so then from then on, I was just like every year in school, I would do, you know, I would do a theater class and I really enjoyed it. And so then I'd be in the play the next semester and I really enjoyed that. And then um, I think around early high school is when I started taking classes outside of school and doing like summer plays with Seattle Children's Theater. Um, shout out to them. They're an incredible uh education department. Um, I think that was a big deal for me. And then later in high school, I got uh into an acting class there that um I met my first like acting teacher. Yeah, um, our theater teacher at North at the Northwest School, which was my high school, was incredible. Um Laura Ferry, and she was such an incredible teacher. Um, and then uh Alban Dennis, I'm just gonna name drop people you don't know. Do it, do it. No, I think they're important to me. Yeah, absolutely. Alban Dennis was um my teacher outside of school, and he really was the first person I think who pushed me really hard. Um, and then in college, I didn't even think I was gonna be a theater major. Yeah. I ended up transferring into the theater major. Gotcha. Um, and even then I tried directing, I tried scene design, I tried fight choreography, I tried almost every department. Wow. And I just when I was graduating, really settled on, you know, I enjoy all of this. Um I ended up doing carpentry uh for theater as like a day job for a little while. Oh wow, cool. But I was like, I really want to focus on acting. Yeah, yeah. Um so it took it it was like a process for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_01There's this constant debate, right? Of like, should you focus on one thing as an artist or should you be open to doing multiple things? Like you said, like you're you're experimenting with writing and like as well as acting. And I I think um for whatever reason I was like, I have to focus on one thing or else I'm never gonna get anywhere. And I look, I think it's just down to whatever works best for you.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I think I it's it's interesting. I think as the years have gone by too, especially over the past like decade and uh or like the past two decades in particular, I think there is something to opening yourself up to all the different avenues that exist, like being writing or doing backstage or whatever, like whatever you're you are interested in. It only helps you be a more well-rounded person and like artist. Yeah, I think so. When you understand like all the different things, all the different elements that come into play, I think it just makes you also just a better performer because you can respect like okay, I've I've worked in wardrobe or whatever for a little while. I understand like why this isn't uh, you know, like like what quick changes have to like how they how they operate and like all the things that go into it. It only helps you as an artist.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think it's like it helps you as an artist in your own craft, and it also crucially helped me appreciate other people's work a lot more, yeah. Even when I didn't understand the nature of that work. Exactly. Like I don't I'm I am wholly unskilled with like lighting design and costumes. Just things that I've never really understood, like how you even begin to to to come up with an idea.
SPEAKER_00Lighting in particular, I am like it is it in both theater and in film, television, like it is such an art form.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, because it's it feels so kind of nebulous in a way. Yeah. Um, but I I think just through seeing the the things people can make with light, for example, um I have so much more respect. Yeah, and so much more patience, I think, like in tech in a in a play or on set, um, like waiting for lighting to to get their thing right because it's such a huge part. And I think as a younger actor, I I don't think I was ever like super selfish, hopefully, fingers crossed. But I think I was a little more self-centered. Oh, sure. Because I didn't understand like sure you were absolutely. I meant but I meant that more of like when you're younger, you just don't know. But I think I no, but seriously, I think I just didn't really have a an appreciation for oh what you're doing is just as vital to the experience of the audience as what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think it's easy when you train hard in one discipline to be like, oh well, what I do is the most important because it's the most important to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it is like what I should take the most responsibility for and the most agency and for sure, but not at the expense or the detriment of the whole experience. Yeah. I think that's been sort of if you like want to sum up like how I try to how I try to approach my work is like it is it is much more about this project being successful than it is about how good I look.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I think that not only is best for the production, but I think that also when I stop thinking about how well I can do my job, I end up doing my job better. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know? Exactly. And it's like that, it's like also that thing of like if you're watching a movie and like something is out of place, if the lighting is off or there's like a weird like set thing, like all of these things, like there's a reason they take so much time to like position these things because when they are out of place, your eye immediately goes to that thing and goes, what's going on back there? Or whatever. It's it's fascinating.
SPEAKER_01Although I will say to to go back to something you said earlier about perfectionism, because I'm working on a short film right now, yeah. Um, that I am writing and directing, and I've been watching movies not only with an eye to the performance, yeah, but with an eye to like, how do they like this? How do they shoot this? Yeah. And then I notice so many more imperfections because I'm looking for, not looking for them, but I'm more like opening. You're more attuned to it now because it's in your head for your own project. I just recently pointed out to me. I've been watching some like YouTube videos on like how certain directors do things and how like if you look at some incredible movies by incredible directors, there are like huge inconsistencies with the way the light is, from like shot to shot in the same scene that I've never noticed before because it still works emotionally for what the character's going through for the moment in the movie. Yeah. Um, and so I think like it is important to get all those things like technically good, but also if you're if you're telling a good story and you're supporting the emotional life of whatever's happening on screen with the protagonist or whoever it is you're watching, it it kind of also doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which is something I love about art, is that it can just like technical skill is valuable, absolutely, but but there's something else that's more important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It and there's also something to like the just the mess. Like, so I think there's like there is authenticity in a mess, you know, and and and uh this is where I get on my like my little soapbox here, because like with AI, I don't think it can necessarily understand that. Like beautiful mistakes that happen when you're creating are like is the creative process, and that is what we find human about art. Yeah, and AI can't construct that, it can't construct you can't construct a mistake, you know. Uh it it so it always feels planned, and that's why you can always kind of tell.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I think like obviously there's been a bunch of talk about AI, but I think where I land on it these days is like it's just like any other technological advancement, like when people started creating um computer graphics, we've already talked about with the dinosaurs in in Jurassic Park when they stopped, or in Star Wars, when they stopped using practical costumes and started using CGI. Yeah, um, not that CGI can't be done well, it definitely can.
SPEAKER_00I think it but it needs to be like complementing the story.
SPEAKER_01My point is that it can still be done super badly. Oh yeah. And so like it's like any other tool. If you use the tool well, it'll be great. If you use it badly, it's gonna be shit. Yeah. And and like people are still making practical effects in movies. Yeah. Like 20 something years after the advent of computer effects.
SPEAKER_00I mean, just look at Frankenstein. Yeah, Del Terra.
SPEAKER_01Frankenstein. Um, and um, and more and more pr directors and and cinematographers, I think, after having gone hard into the oh, we can do all these things with green screens and and and and computers, are like, well, you know, you're still missing something. Yeah. When you do that, I think we're actually gonna come back more and more to the effect that that a real live thing can have. And I think it's been the same with like when you started being able to make digital art and like drawing on your iPad or whatever, people were like, Well, why would I draw on a piece of paper or paint? Yeah, but people still do that all the time. Like, I think the same thing is with AI. Like, yes, you can get AI to create content for you. Yeah, and I think it has its uses, even in the creation of great art. But I just don't see people giving up on, you know. I mean, I think people who run big studios who have their heads up their asses potentially are gonna be like, oh well, this can be a replacement.
SPEAKER_00Because it's all for because they want it's for the sake of money. These days, yeah. And and they're just any tool that creates that form of efficiency, they're gonna grab at. And at a certain point, it just goes like, well, what's the product anymore? Is the product the product, or is it just the notion of getting something out before some anyone else?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And I don't think it's again dissimilar to like a mass-produced print on a I don't know. I don't want to disparage like peop people that design prints and and t-shirts and stuff because that can be an art form in itself.
SPEAKER_00But like No, Dan is coming for you all.
SPEAKER_01But like uh if it if it's something anything mass-produced, yeah, that it's just a different thing. I don't think it ends up replacing art. I think it is a different commodity that you're buying. Yeah. So like if you want to buy content that's created by AI, I don't think philosophically I actually have any problem with that. Because I think it has its uses. Um, but I think people-made art is always going to be relevant. Yeah. And I do think it's important to like fight for that and make sure that that art doesn't get ripped off by AI. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I think that AI can be used as a useful tool, just like anything else we've invented in the history of humanity um to make great art. Yeah. Provided that we don't assume it's gonna do all the work for us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think that is very astute. Mike drop. Who's Mike? Um I was gonna say that like all art forms that exist can continue to exist so long as people have a passion for them. Yeah. You know, like when the pandemic happened, um, I remember everyone being like, theater's dead, it's never coming back. And I was just like, the theater has survived the the black plague and like so many other things in television like it's not going away. It I think it's if your vision of the future is gonna be bleak for something, then it will be bleak for that thing. But if you have a passion for it, it will stay alive. I mean, we're all back, we're we're still making theater now, albeit like Broadway has become like wildly commercial, and I think it could do with some more, you know, but it's new works.
SPEAKER_01But it's been through wildly commercial phases before. Yeah, yeah. It's also always been commercial twists, of course. Of course. Right. But like I just I I feel the pain of like as a so as someone who many actors right now I think are feeling like there's not as many jobs to go around, it feels like. Definitely. Um and also numbers-wise, there just aren't. Um, it feels more like as someone who like has no name recognition at all, like the the roles that I used to maybe be more considered for are being filled by people who now have more TV credits than I do. Yeah, and the roles that they used to get considered for are now being filled by people who like have even more of a career, like it's sort of a trickle-down effect. Yeah. Um, all that's true. That said, um, I think that it has been true before and it will be true again in the future, but there will be periods where it's not true. Yeah, it's all kind of a cycle, and I think we just like you just said, we have to we have to understand that what we do has value beyond what money you make from it. It has value um always. Yeah. And it has value not only to other people when you get to share it, but it has had tremendous value for me as a person. Yeah. And whether whoever gets to see it. Yeah. Um, and so I think it's hard to have patience uh as an actor a lot of the time. But I think I try to cultivate that patience as much as possible. And then I also think having other artistic interests um both related, like like creating films and doing the workshop we talked about, um and making work with other people is one, but also like having artistic hobbies and having other artistic interests, yeah. Having it's an old, annoying thing to say, I think, but like have a life outside of being an actor. But it's true, it's true. But I think I think that the the key to that is not doing it just because somebody says you should have a life outside of being an actor, but just like getting to know yourself better, I think is a better way to go about it and say, okay, like this is an important part of my life, it's always gonna be an important part of my life, but like who am I the rest of the time? Because even if I'm even if I am like the busiest working actor ever, there's still gonna be lots of downtime. Oh, yeah, and I want to be able to enjoy that time with other things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think that's so true.
SPEAKER_01Second mic draw.
SPEAKER_00I think it's interesting. Going back to what you were just saying, though, about like the the sort of cycles of of what Broadway is going through. If if you want to hear great conversation, episode one of this podcast, season one, Britain Cybert. Right? I said your name correctly, right, Britain? Because I know I fucked it up on the first episode. But she she made a really astute remark of like all of the I think the pandemic in particular has really spurred the like this weird sort of like shift in who is getting cast and what roles on in theater right now. And I do think that over time it will shift back to how it used to be because theater used to be a space where you could really start your career.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and then move and get then move into film and television where more you know the big bucks are. Yeah. But like right now, we are in this weird little like anomaly of like you can only be on Broadway or in these things if you've already done film and television, because I think producers are are scared about you know getting a return on their investments and stuff like that, and fame from certain actors and actresses like can guarantee quote unquote a certain return.
SPEAKER_01There was a recent interview that I only heard snippets of that Carrie Coon. Carrie Kuhn, yeah. I knew you were gonna say it's so good, everyone look it up, it's great. Um, but but I I first of all, Carrie Kuhn, fantastic um actor.
SPEAKER_00Um Carrie, you want to come on? Yes.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you're doing very well. You you have a lot of people. I don't know if you're a working class actor or anymore, but like I'd love to meet you. But so that to the point she made in that interview, right? She was like um ta talking about being in bug, right? Yeah. Um, and and how you know she was being very open with the interviewer saying I know, I loved it. I would I would genuinely not have been considered for this level of production um had I not done Gilded Age and White Lotus. White Lotus, yeah. Um, and and the interviewer And no no shade, like was kind of He seemed kind of flummoxed. That like that would be the case, um, because I it sh necessarily shouldn't be the case. Well, I think But I think it is, and I think a lot of people don't don't realize that um for for better or for worse or or just whatever, that is kind of the environment that we're in as actors right now.
SPEAKER_00Well, also it's like it's the the thing that like made me go, like, really? What from the interviewer? Um, and not trying to be rude or anything, but it was just like it there seemed to be this sense of like meritocracy involved with it, yeah. And where it's just like, but we don't live in a meritocracy. Like, I know so many fucking talented actors and actresses and performers, yourself included and myself included. Yes. Where it's like we haven't gotten to have our big break or whatever yet, even though I believe all of these talented people that I know, myself included, are are capable of being at that level of performance. Yeah. Um, and it's tough because like fame has always been a part of our industry. It does have an effect, like star power, as it's been quoted, is is a real thing. It's never not been a thing. Yeah. And it is a business at the end of the day, so it's like I get it. It's just I go and then like circling back to the conversation of like theater used to be the place where you could start your career, and it feels like we're it we for myself I feel a little lost. Yeah. Like, where am I supposed to go now? You know, like it's like so the only place I can think of is like create my own work and get it out there as much as possible because it seems like all these other avenues are kind of being blocked again where you used to be able to sort of succeed. Yeah. Um, not to put a downer on the conversation, but it's just it's I think this is a temporary thing.
SPEAKER_01But I think it's important to acknowledge that at the same time. Yeah, yeah. Because I think I think there can be such a culture to I'm sure this extends to other artist communities, but I'll talk about actors because that's what I know most. That uh you just have to think positive and and like really like, you know, don't don't make any excuses and and uh and then it's easy to kind of bounce back and forth between like yes, I'm gonna make it happen for myself, yeah, to then severe depression, frankly, of like oh, it's I I'm trying so hard and nothing's working and it's just never gonna happen for me. And I think the truth is as as usual, somewhere in the middle. Yeah. That like it it's important to acknowledge that like, yeah, there are industry factors that are kind of working against us given where we are in our careers at the moment. Um and also there's enormous opportunity to to collaborate, to create your own work, yeah um and um and keep doing the thing in some way.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's why this has become like my year of yes. I'm just trying to say yes to like every possible reading that comes my way. When people think of me, I'm just like, I I have had to get over the sort of egotistical side of me that's been like, no, I I deserve to be paid more for this, or what it's like, no, just just do the work and have fun and like and and mingle with other artists because you never know when someone might hit their big break and they're like, I've been thinking of you for this part or whatever. And it's like oh thank god I said yes to all these things and like chose to be a part of these communities, you know.
SPEAKER_01And also like when you're working on a project you're developing on your own, like on it works the other way too. Exactly. You then know all these people that you're like, oh, you know, this this thing I I I want to put together a reading of that I've written, yeah, this person would be great, and I wouldn't have met them had I not said yes to that thing. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00This is yes, no, and sometimes why. This is where I ask a bunch of rapid fire questions, uh, the answers to which are either yes or no, and then every so often, intermittently, when my curiosity is piqued, I will ask why, and Sir Dan will answer. And these questions were compiled from teambuilding.com. I always feel an obligation to mention them. I don't know if that website still exists. That's great. But they're uh there's some fun questions. Exactly. Um and each round the questions get harder, I guess. Sort of. They just get a little more thoughtful, I guess. Um here we go. You ready? No, but go for it. Do you have a second job? Yes. Are you afraid of the dark?
SPEAKER_01Uh no. Do you bake? Uh yeah. Why? I mean, I b I I occasion I I cook much more. I occasionally bake. Um it's just not as much of a thing as cooking.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yes, chef. Yeah. Um that's an inside joke, bros. Have you ever broken a brone?
SPEAKER_01I have not done that.
SPEAKER_00Um, do you have a brone? Do any of us have a brone?
SPEAKER_01We all have an inner brone.
SPEAKER_00Um have you ever broken a bone?
SPEAKER_01Uh yes, but it was like a stress fracture, so not really. Oh, okay. Uh have you ever had stitches? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Why?
SPEAKER_01Uh I I'll try to make this short as possible. I um I worked in a museum as like a museum tour guide for a while. Really? There was yeah, ages ago, there was an exhibit that I had to sort of prep before people came in every morning, and in the exhibit was a metal staircase with like an open bottom. Oh. I was underneath it, and I just was in a rush and I turned, and the a corner of the metal stairs scratched up my head. Oh, Jesus. I mean, heads Yeah, they bleed like. Crazy gross you out, but like so it was it was um gushing everywhere, it was really uncomfortable. And yeah, they had to take me to the ER. I mean it was fine, it wasn't that deep, but I had several stitches, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, I almost got a stitch. I'm not sure if you can see it. We'll do a zoom in. I have a tiny little bit of a scar. I I got this 12. Um, I fell off the back of my couch. This was Christmas Day. I fell off the back of my couch onto a Hot Wheel set and um a garage, and it just like burst with blood. And my dad drove me to the hospital and we got there, and he's like, Yeah, you're probably gonna have to get stitches. And he was like, Let me see it again, and we like took off the thing, and he was like, eh, no, it's fine, let's go home. And so I did I almost got stitches. Never got stitches. Do you know how to swim? Yes. Do you like spiders?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00Have you ever been to summer camp? Yes. Do you have any imaginary do you have an imaginary friend? No. Have you ever caught a fish?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Why?
SPEAKER_01Uh, because I was made to go fishing once, and I despite despite having caught the biggest fish that we ended up eating that night for dinner, and it was delicious. The the time spent on the fucking boat did not justify. I I if you like fishing, the I'm so happy for you. I'm sure there's a great I pieces out there in the side. I don't like being on the water. Yeah. I get kind of seasick. You're trapped, which I don't like. The feeling of being trapped. Um, I know like drinking and fishing can be a thing, but I'm not that big of a drinker. So like I just was like, this is delicious, and I would much rather have bought it from the store.
SPEAKER_00It would have been much faster. Yeah. Let someone who enjoys it do it. Uh fantastic. That's round one. How are we feeling? Uh great. Feeling good? Yeah. Ready to get back in the ring? You make me feel like I shouldn't feel as good as I feel, but yeah, sure, let's do it. No, you're doing great. Round two, here we go. Okay. Do you like riding motorcycles? Never done it.
SPEAKER_01Would always have would like to, but never.
SPEAKER_00Really? Yeah. I I think I'd like it to try it too, but I don't know that I would ever stick with the issue.
SPEAKER_01I just like I've I've seen too I've driven by too many motorcycle crashes where someone just is on the ground not moving. Just lost their head. Um, and um, I just I would love to like take a course in it maybe and learn. Sure. Put it on my resume, maybe. Oh yeah. But um, no, I don't uh Do you have any hobbies? Yeah, so many.
SPEAKER_00Do you believe in ghosts? No. Are you watching any new TV shows at the moment?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Why? Uh because that's what you do as a person in 2026. Um, it's true. You just watch TV. Uh yeah. Short short answer, we're watching uh The Traders. Oh shit, yeah, we were talking about this last time. Taskmaster always. Taskmaster so good. Uh I'm kind of half watching Bridgerton along with Kylila. How is that? I mean, I know it's got a huge following. Like uh like I don't think I'd sit down to watch it. Um but uh but it it it has an appeal for sure. Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_00I've never I've I just haven't gotten into it, but I know a lot of people love it. Yeah. Um have you ever gotten a speeding ticket? Yes. Have you ever lived in another country?
SPEAKER_01Uh no. I mean you can't study abroad, sure, but no. Do you speak more than one language? Yeah, I guess. Really? Why? Yeah, I I speak Spanish. I did not as well as I used to. I used to be like not quite fluent, but but actually pretty close. Yeah. I've just I've just been out of practice for the last like two decades. Yeah. I've been meaning to pick it back up again because I learned it in high school. I use it once in a while and it kind of comes in handy, but not that much.
SPEAKER_00I feel like I live in this uh I well, I shouldn't say where I live, it's just in case. Fuck it. I live in Washington Heights. Yeah, find me. Um a lot of Spanish speakers here and a lot of Spanish speaking people in my building, and I'm like, I should learn because everyone is so lovely in my building. Um and I would just like to get them. Uh are your brothers and sisters annoying? I have none. So no. Do your parents ever embarrass you?
SPEAKER_01Uh not really. Why? Um, they're not like I have issues with my parents, as anybody does. Sure, sure. Um, but I love them dearly. And um and they're just they're not like super loud, um, like super outspoken people. I just don't think they have very many opportunities to be embarrassing. Sure. Um Fair enough. Yeah, they're great. Have you read any good books lately? Yes. Why and what? Um well I wasn't even gonna wait for you to ask. I know you're just gonna go right into it. Some of these, like at the end, are not really yes and no. Um yeah, fair enough. I um just finished Gideon the Ninth by Tamson Weir. I hope I'm pronouncing your name right. Um, because I know you're listening to this podcast. Absolutely, he's a huge fan. She, John. She, she. I was testing him. Uh from New Zealand. Um it's a it's a sci-fi fantasy book about necromancers exploring a haunted Gothic castle in space. Fuck yes. I need to read this. And they're queer and it's great. Fuck them. And um it's it's not only super fun, which is why I picked it up off of a recommendation, but the the prose is actually, I think, maybe the best prose, like the writing itself is so gorgeous and so unique of like any sci-fi book I've read. Yeah. Genuinely, like, I think it's brilliant. And I'm halfway through the second book in the series, and it is it is messing with my mind in the most satisfying way.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. Yeah, you've sold me. I gotta, I gotta read that one. Highly recommend. Alright, that was round two. How you feeling, Dan? I think I'm How you feeling? I I think I'm crushing it, but I'm not sure. Like, when am I gonna start really fucking?
SPEAKER_01Round three is very uh it can get existential. They are existential. It just feels like the endgame stages of hot ones right now. I'm like I'm like getting to the the debom section.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm like there's some hot sauce over there you should drink, and uh you can answer the questions. Alright, ready? Yeah, let's do it. Do you believe in an afterlife? Yeah. Why?
SPEAKER_01Um, instinct. Um, but I don't I have no idea what form that afterlife takes. Sure. I'm also fully aware that that might just be a comfort thing and it might not exist. Fair enough. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_00Would you ever start a romantic relationship if you knew for sure you were bound to part ways in three years?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. It's hard to say because I'm in a relationship and it's just so hard to imagine starting anything. Yeah. Because I've already done it. Thank you very much. Yeah. Um if I knew I want to say probably yes. Yeah. And I probably at this stage, like if I'm trying to imagine, um, would know that I'd be so gutted when it ended, but I'd probably do it anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'd say yes too. If you could find out how you were going to die, would you want to know? No. No. Thank you. You're the th I feel like I've asked that one a couple of times, and people have said yes almost every time. Because here's the thing.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, what? Here's the thing. It'll be very comforting if it is like a quick way or like a peaceful way. Sure. But if if it just on the off chance that it turns out you're gonna die, I don't I don't want to describe anything horrible, um, but just like something so painful and slow and excruciating. It's just like I I I'm just gonna be worried about that for the rest of my life. Like, when is that gonna happen? And yeah and how bad is it gonna be really? I don't want to know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Agree. Do you think you will have any regrets when you're 90?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think so, but I'm going to and why myself. Um I think regret is perfectly healthy. Why myself? Why? This is important to me, actually. Like I why all of these. I I think um regret is perfectly healthy and natural. Yeah. And I think this narrative of like you should never have any regrets is ridiculous. If if we weren't supposed to feel regret, if we weren't supposed to feel regret, we wouldn't be able to feel regret. Yeah. Um and so I hope that I hope I don't have any like massive regrets when I die, but I think I think I probably will have a few. I already have a few that I know I'm not gonna be able to go back and change. Yeah. But the fact that I regret those things, ha once I've kind of accepted that, has helped me to appreciate the things I have more. Yeah. And I think has contributed to my growth as a human being. So um so I think I will, and I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_00I love that answer. And with that, that is round three of yes, no, and sometimes why. Sir Dan. This was so fun, dude. I'm so glad you could come on the pod. Um anything you'd like to promote? Anything you're working on that you you want to put out there?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, I'd love to. Um Thanks, John. Um take it away. So um this is I'm gonna start kind of gross, I guess. But um, this isn't even promotion. I just want to shout out uh my my wife and partner, Kylila Hobby, who you've had on the podcast. She's amazing. Um, she's amazing. Uh I'm so happy to be with her, and she's an incredible artist. Um beautiful. So I feel like I have to shout out the most important person in my life.
SPEAKER_00Um and she is the pregnant woman in your short film that you were gonna. Yes. Which sounds like that.
SPEAKER_01So I should definitely talk about that. So, yes, Kylila. Um we're expecting a baby. We're really excited. Um I'm so excited. I'm gonna be an uncle guys. Uh crazy Uncle John. Um, but uh yeah, so the short film um that I'm uh preparing to shoot is called Heist Film. Heist film. Um Kylila is starring as a pregnant art thief. I love it. Um who wants to pull like her dream heist before she gives birth. I love it. Um and we have a wonderful, as always with great heist films, a collection of characters who are her team. And it's all people that I know and we've worked together before. And um uh it's my directorial debut. It's the first script I've ever finished. Love it. Uh and I've written several drafts of. Um I will be directing and shooting it with a small crew, um, and they'll all be in it. And um I'm really psyched for that. Uh so I will hopefully maybe I can like send you some stuff to put in the show notes. Please. Um, but we will have an Instagram live um soon. It's um heist film production. There you go. Um we have a we'll have a crowdfunding page which you want to donate. I would love that. But uh also if you just want to check out the promo video and see and see what it's about, um that would be great as well. Um so definitely shout out that. Um that's been really satisfying and fun to work on, by the way. I'm super excited to be getting back to like film. Um and then yeah, I mean, you already mentioned it, the 12th night workshop that we've done with Alan in the living room has been really spectacular. Um I'm gonna be in a reading in uh western Massachusetts. Oh, fantastic. With Sarah Wolf, um, who's in uh went to grad school with her. She introduced me to Kylila and is an incredible artist. Um, she is directing a reading of King Lear. Oh, great. Which we're gonna do just for one night in Northampton. Nice. Um her company is called Cadent Shakespeare. Cadent. Mm-hmm. Nice. Um and it's a collaboration with Junkyard Shakespeare. Um, and uh they're all amazing people, and King Lear is my favorite Shakespeare play.
SPEAKER_00Love it.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, Dan, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. It's so fun. Thank you, John. Always fun to spend, man. I also should just say on an end note, John interviews all these amazing people, but John is himself an incredible person. I'm gonna lean into the camera for this one. John Mattalone. I know John Mattalone through Kylila because they went to NYU together.
SPEAKER_00I I'm just not even I'm getting this camera. Your profile while I'm just like giddy. Let's frame this intentionally. I'm sure it'll be perfect.
SPEAKER_01And um John is not only an incredible human, as I'm sure you've been able to tell, but an incredible performer. Oh, thanks. A great actor, an incredible singer. Oh, thanks. Oh my god. Um and um so like fun and transformative, and it's been a delight getting to work with you um on uh several things recently. Um I'm so happy.
SPEAKER_00I'm so it's really satisfying. It is so satisfying. Shout out to Ellen Heald uh at Living Room Productions. Thank you for like bringing me on to your TV. I feel like you're gonna have to have her on the podcast now. Oh, I tweeted about her so much. I'm pretty sure I have sent her an invite too. Um, but thank you. It's been such a blast doing these readings and and workshops. Totally. Um, but that's it, y'all. This is the that's the end of the episode. So we'll see you next week. Yeah, bye for now. Bye bye. Bye bye, bye bye. Bye.
