Rowan Vickers

On this week's episode I sit down with one of my favorite people, Rowan Vickers. We discuss everything from his storied career working in theaters across the country to which soda brands match best with each swear word.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is where we tell a story, one word each, until uh it's a story. Okay, let's do it. And here we go. Who starts? Uh if you'd you would like to do the honors, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

All right. I'll go. I gotta go classic. Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Oh my god. Once upon a time there was a boy who was very stupid and uh dumb.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

So he went to the school where he proceeded to Phil the school with the principal was very angry with the boy. So he took him out inside one word out to the field and executed his revenge, which took four hours to complete he then the principal that did execute turned into monster.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

The monster then disappeared. And we don't know what his motives might be.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Oh that was a good sorry, that went really dark there. No, that was good.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Hey, you never know where it's gonna go. You know, sometimes you just gotta let it out. Sometimes kids are stupid. It's true, and principles will execute them and turn into monsters and things of legend. That was really disarming. That was good. Hello, and welcome to working class acts.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Um career highlights would be uh understudying uh in the Broadway production of Lobby Hero in 2018. I did I did the first national tour of Tina, the Tina Turner musical. Um I've done some plays off Broadway, I did a world premiere at New York Theater Workshop, I did a New York premiere at the New Group, um, I got to do uh an in-rep doing picnic and comeback little Sheba with uh Transport Group. Uh um regionally I got to work at uh the California Shakespeare Theater, Denver Center, Studio Theater in DC, Pittsburgh Public Theater, um, Santa Cruz Shakespeare. Um and in terms of TV and film, I I've I have appeared and then very quickly disappeared on on screens on I got a couple of things. Well that tends to happen between the scenes. Yes, exactly. I got to do a little appearance on a show called Silo, which was for Apple TV. Oh, dope. Um uh Instinct for CBS, um a pla uh uh a TV show called May Day for Discovery, and then I I was also in a feature for life for lifetime called uh Yes Yes Labor, Lies and Murder. Um and then I'm I also recently did a uh an indie short that was written and directed by Chelsea Markantel, who's a Juilliard playwright, and that'll be coming out later this this spring.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Um Well you heard it all from him just then. It's Rowan Vickers.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

How are you doing, buddy? I'm good, man. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

And thanks for coming on. Wait, so wait, you understudied was the for Lobby Hero? Was that the one with Michael Sarah? Yep. Oh my god, how was that experience?

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Yeah, it was amazing. It was great. I understudied Chris Evans and Michael Sarah in that.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Oh my god, Chris Evans was in that too. And um wait, the other actor too is an amazing actor. I'm always oh my god, he's so good on uh Atlanta. He is so fucking good on that. Um so Rowan. Where are you from?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Take us back to the beginning. I'm a mic. Tell us who Rowan is.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Um, I was born in Canada. Um, really? Yeah, I know that. I was born in in London, Ontario. Um uh my parents are Bermudian, they um and they they moved they moved to Canada to go to university. They had me and my sisters there. Um so I grew up in in Canada until I was 10, and then we moved back to Bermuda uh the summer I turned 11. Wow. Um so yes, and then so Bermuda's where I spent my formative years. Um and then I went I came to New York City from from high school.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Wow. Yeah, very cool, very cool. It's is Bermuda does it have much of like a theater scene out there, or uh I know that you and your wife and my partner uh used to do uh uh some theater uh you had a little theater company going on there for a couple summers.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

Yes, yeah, no, there's a there's a wonderful um community theater uh culture in Bermuda. And um there's a there's a wonderful the Gilbert and Sullivan Society and the uh uh BMDS they call the Bermuda Musical Dramatic Society. They um they they're they're great and um they produce a lot of really wonderful community theater. That's awesome. And they they bring a lot of great people from the UK to to work on their productions and um it's awesome for you for young people to be in the it's great. Um but yeah, we um a few years ago um staged a production of the Glass Menagerie for the Bermuda Festival. Oh I love it. And then um that that was early 2020, which then you know obviously the world changed very soon thereafter with with COVID, and so then we turned our attention to these summers to to summer outreach programs for Bermudian students. And hopefully we made a a great impact on on those kids who who kept coming back year after year. And we formed relationships with them. You know, we we met some of them when they were 10, and then the last program we did they would have been 14. We did it four summers in a row. So you know, you really get to know these kids. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so to watch them like grow and change and evolve and become you know, awesome young adults was was something that kind of took both uh Leah and myself kind of by surprise. Yeah, yeah. We didn't necessarily expect that, so that was kind of that's awesome, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

That's amazing. I I work with um from time to time the 52nd Street Project here in New York City, and it is such a joy to watch these kids like learn the basics of creating theater and just telling stories. And kids are so fucking funny, dude. They they they have no barriers, they'll say what's ever in their mind, and they are so creative too. It's like what happens when we get to adulthood? We kind of like we sort of squash it in ourselves, or it's squashed in us, and then you have to like re reintroduce yourself to your creativity in a weird way.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Yeah, yeah. No, the kid they get it, man. They uh yeah, and they get stories, you know. They uh they they navigate their life as a story, right? And yeah, they're immersed in TV shows and movies, and you know that's how we navigate our life is through a story. So, you know, you you guide a little kid through a a sort of guided improvisation, and you know, you get them to uh you know wander into a cave and see what you discover in the cave. Like they they their mind opens up and they start to get really excited, and then they they start to get more curious about what they don't yet understand. Yeah, yeah. And we we focused our summer the summer program specifically on on Shakespeare to try and keep Shakespeare Bermuda because there was there was a really wonderful thing um when I was growing up there called the uh uh International Schools Shakespeare Festival, and um Bermuda took part in it, and it's schools across the world um perform, you know, a bridge Shakespeare play sort of all at once in the sort of like international festival. Oh that's great through Shakespeare. Yeah, that's an amazing thing. And so uh over the years, uh when I was a little when I was a kid uh you know, in high school there, we did several productions and it was a big sort of formative part of my uh life, and and it's it was no longer operational in Bermuda, and I thought that was a great shame. And so I wanted to we wanted to use these summers to sort of you know keep Shakespeare alive and work. Yeah, and but you know, a lot of kids find Shakespeare very dense and impenetrable and scary and intimidating, right? They don't care, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Um I'm an adult and I still find it that way some from time to time.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

Who doesn't, right? But um so we just tried to approach everything in the spirit of like play and fun, yeah. And you know, it's not about being good or impressing anybody, it's not about having all the right or interesting answers, it's about asking the interesting questions and just getting curious, right? Yeah, and you tell that to a little kid and and you reinforce that in the way that you play games and you reinforce that with your own behavior, yeah. And suddenly the kid starts getting excited about what they don't yet understand, rather intimidated by it. Totally. That's just cool, and that's that's something that the kids can take into regardless of where they go in life, you know. Regardless of if they go into the theater or not, you know, that's not the point. The point was to sort of yeah, yeah, and let them encounter Shakespeare, let them encounter something they're really scared of in a way that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Yeah, totally, totally. What so when did you start getting into the theater arts? Was it in Bermuda or were you like, did you always aspire to go to New York or yeah?

SPEAKER_04 9:02

No, I I got bit I got bit early. I got I was Oh yes, wait.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

When did you get the bug? Right. I got I ask it every every episode. I sh I almost didn't say it. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

They uh I got the bug early. I was in third grade. I and it's because I had an awesome I had an awesome third grade teacher. Um I love that. So I was still living in Canada. There's a there's a wonderful um Canadian uh author. Her name's Lois Burdett, and she That's a great name. Uh yeah, yeah. Lois Burdett. Right? Um The Glass Manette. Yes, exactly. No, she she um I think she's still with us. She um adapts and or has adapted um Shakespeare's plays into sort of storybook form for young children, yeah. Primarily children like under under 10, I would say. And my third grade teacher, uh the school that I went to, every year she would stage this sort of storybook version of a Shakespeare play with her class. It's awesome, right? Um and uh my class did Romeo and Juliet, and I I just was um I became obsessed by it. You know, I was just um I I would come home every day and and watch the Zefferelli version, the movie version of Romeo and Juliet, like on repeat. My like my parents make jokes that it was like I'd watch it all and then I'd like be called to the table, and then I'd run back and like watch it again or watch specific scenes and I'd pull out my my dad's complete works, and yeah, and you know, I was just sort of um enamored by the mystery of it all. Yeah, yeah. Um and the the notion of like stepping inside of a story was like insane, it was amazing to me. Um and it just sort of uh yeah, never never let go of me from there. So I I I got it quite early and God bless my parents. I just have really supportive, amazing parents. And they they now to be fair, like my there were artists in my family too. My my granddad was an opera singer, yeah, and uh he sang a lot of the great tenor roles at you know the best opera houses in in the world. And my his one of his sons, my uncle Bill, who was in the Glass Menager, is an actor as well. Yeah, and he he's had uh you know him and his wife had very illustrious careers at the um Stratford Festival and the Shaw Festival in Canada. Oh, they've they've they've worked their whole life in Canada.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

So uh my brother uh and his wife, my sister-in-law, they got married uh like in um Niagara on the lake. Oh yeah, yeah. So I I walked right but really yeah, it's a gorgeous little town. Beautiful. Oh my god, I love it. I love it so much. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, the vineyards, it's miles and miles and miles of vineyards. It's so cool. No, it's uh but yeah, but just to say that I I walked past it.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

I've seen it, I've seen it, been there.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

I saw it from afar through the woods.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Yeah, no, so they worked there like their whole careers. I'm I would see productions of theirs growing up. So like the no all this is to say is like the notion of someone being an actor or having a life in the arts was not something that was like foreign to my household. It wasn't like, you know, be a doctor or a lawyer. I was I was really lucky. I had very supportive, awesome parents who stoked that that fire in me. And so yeah, so when I was still little and still living in Canada, and and they clearly saw that I'd just become enamored with with Shakespeare and being an actor, uh, you know, living inside of stories. I was just obsessed by it. That um they didn't they encouraged it in me. And there was a um uh the the theater in my home city, it was called the Grand Theater, and they were doing a production of Peter Pan um like when I was, you know, it's the soon after my debut in Romeo and Juliet in Ryerson Public School. Um they were looking, there was like an advertisement in the paper doing a casting call for um Lost Boys, you know, for looking for their kids to come and audition. And so my mom asked if I, you know, would you want to go and audition? It's like yeah. So off I went and and I I did uh recited a little poem for my audition. I it was a poem called Daddy Fell into the Pond. What happened to Daddy when he didn't know? But he definitely fell into the pond. And I think that like it was this from the perspective of like this mischievous boy who thought it was very funny that his dad fell into the pond. I can't remember, can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Meanwhile, his dad is drowning and freezing to death. That's the kid who actually ended up getting executed by the principal. He's so stupid and dumb. Goes full circle. Um, yeah, so I ended up in the past.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Principal was in love with the father.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

That's the twist. No! Of course.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Oh wow, the story has gotten really Juliet's forbidden.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Oh, good, yes. Um, so I um uh what was I saying?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

I totally derailed you. Moss Boys, oh yeah, Moss Boys, yes. Daddy fell into the pond.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

I did daddy fell into the pond, and I ended up doing this production of Peter Pan where I got to play John, the brother. Oh, great, you know, with the top hat and fly. So I got to mid school and like fly around, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:35

And it was like, this is it. Whatever. I get to mid school and I get to pretend before this, whatever this is is for me.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

I love it. Um and then right before we moved to Bermuda, I got to do a production of Macbeth at Stratford at the Stratford Festival. And so for like obviously my my way into wanting to be an actor really young was was Shakespeare and the sort of mystery of it. And then I, you know, soon thereafter got the chance. I was like, and I was in like nine or ten, I got to play young Macduff in this production of Macbeth. Yeah, and like with these amazing Canadian actors, uh Graham Abbey was Macbeth, Lucy Peacock was Lady Macbeth, these um towering figures of the Canadian theater. And um, and I got to like immerse myself in that in that sort of environment. And um it was probably like with the most formative experience of my life. Awesome, you know. Um, and I and and so after that it was just a runaway train. Um and I actually I didn't end up finishing the run. We actually moved to Bermuda as before the run had concluded. So I I left that production. They had to find another little kid and and replace me. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Oh, so this was all in Bermuda. Wait, was this this was in Canada? That was in Canada at Stratford in Canada. I see I see.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

Yeah. So we were still living in London. I see, I see I see. Yeah, and so London, Canada. Yes, London, Ontario.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Yes, London, oh my god, there's too many names going on right now. Um you can leave. But they I'll see myself out. It's too confusing.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

You should have ended it after the the execution in the story. Of a of a child. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Um so um so yeah, and then we moved to Bermuda that summer, summer of 2004. Um and then, yeah, so then uh and then I quickly j got involved with school plays, and again, I just got really lucky. I had an amazing drama teacher um named uh Matt McGowan, Mr. McGowan, and uh he was awesome. And he came from the UK to to Bermuda to teach at the school that I went to. And yeah, from when I was like 12 to when I basically graduated high school, he he was uh the drama teacher there, and we became close and nice and we we did just play after play. And I think he found uh you know someone in me that was uh you know, I was a student who was just like so gay, like more game than game, right? And so I think he there must be probably appreciated that right. He's probably it might be put you know pulling teeth to get kids to engage with with drama, yeah, you know. Um and in here I was I was just like rip roaring, I'm like I'll do anything. I want to I wanna get all right, put me in coach kind of attitude. And so we we did uh I was really lucky he let me do like a like um cool roles that's awesome. And and really let me cut my teeth. And um, yeah, and so then when time came to leave um high school, at that point Mr. McGowan had stopped teaching at the school. I was on my own. Oh god. Oh god. And um no, I actually I wanted to, so I by the time when the time came to leave high school, I I was gonna go to drama school. Or you know, that was my thinking. That's what I was uh not that I was sure I would. I don't mean it like that. I just mean like that was the plan. Yeah, I didn't think of doing anything else anything else.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

When did you go to Juilliard? What did you go to New York? Did you have like years there where you were trying to find work or did you go directly to school or no?

SPEAKER_04 16:41

No, yeah. So I went to Juilliard out of high school. So right out of high school. Yeah. Wow, okay, gotcha. So so um in my senior year of high school was when I started doing my sort of auditions for for drama school for under undergrad. Gotcha. Um and because Bermuda is a British overseas territory, um, and I'd done some summer programs over in the UK previously, like when I was 15 and 16 in the summers. Um, I wanted to go to drama school in the UK. I I'd done summer programs at the summer programs at Rada and at Rose Bruford, and I loved London. You know, I got to like spend summers over there as a teenager and I loved it. Fucking loved it. Um we fucking fellow. Yes, it's never gonna live that day.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

That's gonna keep coming up in throughout the podcast. We've already justified the justified it. It's gone full circle.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

It's it's gone full circle. We've tied the bow. Um yeah, what was I saying? Juilliard. Yeah. So um, oh yeah, because I was I wanted to go to London. I fucking fell in love with London. Yeah, absolutely. And I I wanted to go. And so I auditioned for drama schools in London, and but I all but I also auditioned for Juilliard. Juilliard was the only school not in the UK that I auditioned for. I didn't audition for any other schools in the States. Um because I thought I was gonna go to the UK, and I also just didn't think I was gonna go to Juilliard, and so um I was gonna go to Central in the UK, and that was like my mind was made up, and then I auditioned for Juilliard anyways, and then when I ended up getting in, it was like, okay, I should go to Juilliard, and um and then I did, and that and um yeah, it changed the trajectory of my life for sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Wait, did you get into any of the others in in the UK if you don't mind my asking?

SPEAKER_04 18:18

Yeah, I I was gonna go to Central.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Oh, so you got into Central as well.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Yeah, I was that's where I was gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

So why why did you why Juilliard over Central?

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Um great question. Yeah. Um I don't ultimately know. I just um I I loved my experience auditioning for Juilliard. Yeah. Um It was a four-year program and not three. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

The fourth year is is the fourth year sort of like a I I don't mean to trivialize it, but like sort of a play year. Like you you're kind of there, but you're they're trying to like I'm not sure what it is. Push you out of the door as much as they can while still giving you an education. Sure. I mean it that's fair. Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Or at least it was that I think that's fair from when I was there. Now I I'm I'll age myself here, but yeah, it was like 10 years ago that I went there. But so and I think the school's undergone quite a lot of change since since I left. And so I don't I don't know about how it's structured now. Sure. Um, but at least I can speak to when I was there. Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Was Feldman there?

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Yeah. Yeah, love God. He's such an incredible teacher. Yeah, he's an incredible, incredible mentor, incredible teacher, incredible mind, yeah. Um beautiful human being. He's the voice in my head. Yeah. When I, you know, yeah, unpacking a play.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

And he he's just so because he was at NYU with this as well. He did our scene study, one of our scene study classes with us. Of course. Just his ability to just like give you the simplest note that cuts to the core of what you're trying to figure out. Yeah. Is it's really an amazing gift slash skill that he has.

SPEAKER_04 19:45

Yeah, that he's able to distill in such a way that and and just he seems to be just this man of infinite patience, too. You know, oh my god, yeah. Which is I can't imagine him so important. Right, right. Um, yeah, I mean it it's it's yeah, he's a w a fountain of information and um yeah, a beautiful man. Um and actually, yeah, to be fair, it was ri Richard's presence. Richard's it was Richard was a big factor. You know, I mean he made a big impression on me on that the final uh callback weekend. All the teachers did. And so it just felt like far it felt like too invigorating of an environment. It's right at Lincoln Center. Yeah, it's four years and not three. It's in New York City. Yeah. It's uh and Bermuda's not that, you know. I you can fly to New York City from Bermuda in an hour and a half, right? Whereas it's it's it's still like a seven or eight-hour flight to go to the UK. So I suppose it was a mix of like heart and head, but yeah, um and travel plans. And travel plans, yeah, right. The practicality of it.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

But no, it was like, yeah, totally different lifestyle. Yeah. And yeah, away from people, your family, yeah, that like genuinely far away from that.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

Yes, exactly. Yeah, and then so for then on school breaks to then be able to like fly an hour and a half to home rather than slug it from the whatever eight hours, yeah. Um so yeah, no, and but it was ultimately the it was ultimately the school itself. It was the environment of the school itself.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

That Juilliard has.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Yeah, and it was the teachers and it was the um just the experience of the of auditioning there and just being like, uh this feels this feels right. This feels like I have something that I gotta do, you know. And um, I'm really glad that I did. It was a it was a harrowing time in in my life. I think drama school or conservatory programs like that are a harrowing time in anyone's life. You can attest to that, you know, NYU grad. And it's conservatory programs and are they're intense.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

And um but it's like sort of the thing that you they they said to us at NYU was like, we're giving you way more than you will ever deal with in the real world. Yes, we do that for a reason, so that like when you get out of here it feels easy or easier, sure, sure, yeah. You know, um yeah, but yeah, it's it's it's really intense. It is like your your time is almost entirely dedicated to this place. Yes. Um entirely, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

You know, it's yeah, 10 to 12 hour days, six days a week, not exaggerating. Yeah, like that's your schedule. And and I f I think I found it particularly difficult. I think maybe I'm I've I'm gaining a little bit more perspective on this as I get a little bit older. Um it I mean that's I I think that time commitment and that sort of rigor of schedule is is difficult um on its own, let alone like as a 19, 20 year old person.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Oh my god, yeah. Um well that's the interesting thing about Juilliard too, is it correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that BFA and MFA are intermixed. So that's it. And it was even more so when I went there. Well, was it really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

I mean, because I didn't go there when there was an MFA. I went there when it was just a postgraduate diploma.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, yeah. So I mean that but that's such a huge such a huge age range of people to be working with. Totally, man. Um, which I'm sure can be maybe a little more trying on the older individuals than the younger ones. Totally, man. I'm sorry. But you owned the younger ones, so you didn't care.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Right. But I it's so funny, man. Like I I think it is symbiotic in some sense, though, because uh I have d I have a good friend Max Wartendike who's in my class, wonderful actor, director, producer. And I would I talked to him about this because he was um he was older than he was a uh a postgrad student in my class. Sure. And uh I think he's about uh about 10 years older than I than I am, you know, and so I would I and I very much looked up to him, you know. And I would I talked to him about about this uh you know when we were in school, and we were talking just about how you you know we learn from each other just as much as we learn from, or maybe not just as much, but we learn from each other as well as we learn from uh or in addition to learning from the professors and the classes, etc. And and and I sort of brought up the something, a sentiment similar to what you brought up, and Max sort of said something akin to you know the the youthful naivete or like just vibrance that the phase brought does ru would rub off on the postgraduate students as well, right? There's like sort of we end up kind of pulling each other towards the center, right? It's like there's sort of a uh not a jadedness, but if that's the word you want to use, and then there's like this bright naivete, like sure, coach, put me in, I'll do whatever.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Graduated Juilliard. Did you stay right here in New York? Did you travel a bit or or what was the Yeah?

SPEAKER_04 24:14

I stayed in New York and and worked uh and or as you know, as much as I was able. I um I I was lucky to do some plays with some awesome people, and uh it was really invigorating and and amazing. Yeah. Nice. Uh so I was I was here for the for the first uh couple years out of school. Yeah. Nice. Um and then I relocated back to back home to Bermuda for a few years. Uh and then um I I have since uh come back. Uh Leah and I have moved back to New York City. Oh my god. Yeah. Back in we moved back in uh well I c I came back in to the States in 2023 to do the the first national to the Tina tour. The tour of the Tina Turner musical. Oh my wait, how is that? Amazing. Yeah, loved it. Who did you play in it? Um so I played um a couple of parts, but the the main part that I played was a guy called John Carpenter, who's the head of um the Carpenter. The director? Uh no, he's the he was the head of Capitol Records. The director, yeah. Uh John Carpenter's like, you're making like scary movies on the side or whatever. I'm picking up the show.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

I'll be directing the thing on the side over here.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

No, no, different John Carpenter. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, no, that this he's a studio executive, or the record company executive. Oh wow. And who who ends up sort of getting caught in between uh Tina's manager and the um the sort of upper suits. Oh uh and he's sort of he has sort of like a moral quandary in there. So yeah, no, it was it was fun, beautiful time. Um love the show, love the friends that I made. And um I'd never done a tour before. Yeah. Um, you know, I'd never done 400 performances of a show before, you know. And so I was gonna say, how long are you out of here? It was about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

What is that? Almost two years?

SPEAKER_04 25:46

No idea was a year and a half. Oh, that was just a year. Yeah, it was I mean, it was eight shows a week for a year. We did like eight shows a week, yeah. It was a lot. It was a lot. You know, I'm I'm you know, uh, it's a guesstimation, but it's something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three high three something. No, we're gonna we're gonna get you on this. We're gonna be like, oh, he said 400. Well, but are you taking into account you know the the vacation time and the you know all that stuff you're like fuck no, no? I'm saying four. Yeah, no, but it was almost it was around about that. So it's it was a shit ton of performances. And um that's of a musical too. You know, I'd never done a professional uh it's the only professional musical I've done. Yeah, um are you a singer? In the shower, yeah. No, I no, I sing. I sing, you know, I uh and but but it was the only professional musical I've I've done and and to get to do it on the road was was amazing. Yeah I got to make a lot of great great friends and meet a lot of the make a lot of great friends with the crew and the cast. Yeah, nice and also if for nothing else to see the country, man. Like I was gonna say, did you go all across West like the the whole country? I think there's 37 cities, and uh and we did six weeks in Toronto as well. And so I I wasn't very well traveled in the states before this, you know. Um and so now I've I've been to I've been to lots of places that I otherwise would not have been. Yeah, and that was really special. And so I treated it, yeah, really like an an adventure, yeah. Yeah, a uh see a see a see the country adventure. That's so cool. And you got to do and then at night you go do, you know, a a a Tina Turner dance party with your friends, and and and it was also I um I joined the tour um soon after Tina uh Turner had passed, and so it was um very much a sort of that that year we sold very well, and people were really excited to see the show as a celebration of Tina Turner. She's a figure obviously who means so much to so many people for so many reasons. Um so that was a real blessing too, just getting to like be led into the the the life of Tina Turner in a way that I I didn't I I knew generally who she was, I knew some of the hits, I sure you know knew of the the movie, yeah, uh you know, but I didn't know much about her life other than that, and so getting to kind of uh learn about that, immerse myself in that world, even meet some of her family members who would come and see the show. Wow, and just to see people, you know, really affected by the show and love the show, and you can see them, you know, everything that they're overcoming in their own life. Yeah, I don't know, to to to get to be part of a show that does that was was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

I mean, I think that's one of the best parts of being a performer, an actor is like when you get to given material that you're like, oh I know this person, or like I I know a little bit about this, and just like getting to do a deeper dive into it and just being like, wow, there was so much here that I I didn't that maybe I would never have actually like taken the time to look up or what have you.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

Totally um yeah, no, Tina Turner now means a lot to me. I think uh I'm really grateful for that. Yeah, that's so no, it was it was an awesome show. I and I made lifelong friends on it, and um it was a real joy.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

That's awesome, dude. Yeah. So you've done a lot of regional theater too, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like how how has your experience been with going around the country and performing? Like what what's like what's your f this is such a general question, but like what's been your favorite project that you've gotten to do? I mean, it sounds like you've gotten to work with so many theater companies. It's just awesome.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

I love the regional theater, you know, and I would I I love traveling. Yeah. I love traveling. I love going to different places, and I I just love getting the chance to do to do plays, work on plays, you know, and uh and yeah, getting to go to really cool cities like DC. I did a I did the DC production of Bad Jews, the the Joshua How did Bad Jews. Um my favorite production that I've probably been a part of was probably I really I always come back to this production of Measure for Measure that I did um at West in California at Cal Shakespeare's, which sadly um is no longer operational. But um, I know it's it's devastating. But um the California Shakespeare Theater was yeah, was a special place. Eric Ting was running it when I did this production of Measure for Measure there. And um it was a whirl it was a whirlwind experience because I um I got hired on quite last minute and I I was playing the Duke in Measure for Measure and Valentine and Two Gentlemen of Verona in in rep at Santa Cruz Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

That's quite different. I think the Duke is one of the hardest characters in the canon. Measure for measure, I think, is like his most high poetical play. Sure, sure. So dense with imagery, but it's Measure for Measure is incredible.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

I think I think it's that's part of the reason why I s I think it is my favorite project, is because I I A didn't know much about the play before the project. I knew it to the extent that one uh knows it when you're when you're auditioning for it, but I know not nearly in as in depth as as after having having done it. But yeah um it's such a problem play, it's such an interesting play, it's such a weird play. Um, but it's also like a startlingly um beautiful play as well. And yeah um so so let me back up a little bit. I'm getting carried away. So so so can you not get carried away? So that production was was done in rep originally with Santa Cruz Shakespeare. We did it in rep with two gentlemen of Rona. Oh god. And I only had a few days before going out there. So I was the um the just like the amount of work that that took to to start getting two roles uh simultaneously up on their feet, yeah, was harrowing. Yeah, but then but that's also like why I loved it so much because it was so rewarding. And then we ended up taking that production of Measure for Measure, specifically was a co-production with the California Shakespeare Theater. So then we took that production after our run at Santa Cruz up to Berkeley, and we ran just the measure for measure at Califor at Cal Shakes. And um so it was outdoors, and the the Cal Shakes theater was situated like right at the foot of these beautiful rolling hills. Um and so I was and how old was I? I was like 24, 23 or 24. Um, so I was like kind of right out of drama school, and I got to like, you know, I'm I'm uh the only time I went to California other than that was showcase for school, and and that's just you know, you're in LA for like however long you watched. Okay, for you. We were there for however however long you're there for five days a week or something, and it's just it's a crazy time, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Uh no, I never went. We never did. Okay, we never did. Okay. So it's a crazy time.

SPEAKER_04 32:03

It was a crazy time you don't went to see a lot of California, right? You just sort of see LA and you're doing your thing. Yeah, yeah. Um, but so yeah, the chance to go to California, to Northern California, it's so beautiful. Do this play that I wasn't really familiar with, but got to come to terms with. Um Tyne Raffaeli directed it, and she I just I can't say enough incredible things about her. So getting getting to work with her was also just a real gift and a joy, and something that's a real career highlight for me. Nice. Um so it's like sort of the synthesis of all those things of like performing Shakespeare outdoors in the hills of California with a problem play that I didn't get at first and and had to really wrestle with, you know, in in a beautiful environment. And you know, um like I said, it's it's a tragedy that that theater doesn't exist anymore, but I'm it's it's part of why it's special too, because it's like I I'm really glad I got to work there.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yeah. So wait, you said you played the Duke at age 24.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

So this is this is why part of why I think Tyne Raphael is is a genius and why I loved working with her. And I loved our take on the play because it really flipped it on his head. Yeah. Um and we she, Tyne, um, made a lot of very bold choices that I thought were really cool and broke the play open in a way that was hadn't just hadn't been explored. And so, you know, obviously one of the the problem elements of that play is the the silence of Isabella in the in the fifth act and the proposal that you know comes along with that or precedes that, I suppose. And and we we flipped it on its head that it it was not a proposal, it was not romantic, but that the Duke abdicates the throne to Isabella at the end. And so shit, what's mine referring to the throne is yours, and we are not worthy, you know, basically like Oh, I love that's actually how he like gives her the keys to the kingdom. Yeah, in this way, and the reason why she's silent, the sort of final image that Tyne built on the stage was what do you say to that? What do you do? Right. So then Isabella then is presented with this temptation, with this, you know, uh uh uh uh power, yeah, and it's is she going to choose to take it or not? You know. Oh, that's great. Oh yeah, and it all of a sudden makes the play sing in this in this major key rather than a minor key. And um I fucking loved that. And also Tyne's instinct that it was Tyne's genius that she cast me.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

No, but it's it was Tyne's genius instinct that this It's always genius work when you cast me. Yeah, it was her best was the best choice she made. Her best work.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

But yeah, but no, the idea of casting a young man that like the his behavior at the top of the show and w and his behavior throughout the show, yeah, it it's totally believable as a as young folly, as a young man's mistake, yeah, you know, that he's inherited this kingdom as a young person, yeah, and um is not up to the task. And uh, and and and perhaps perhaps that abdication and running away is is um, you know, it's like a sign of his sort of it uh it's somewhat of a sign of his wisdom in that he he sort of goes, I can't do this. Yeah, yeah. Um and so we really focused in on this young man at the top who's who's overwhelmed and overcome. Um and and and it's it's a situation that is beyond his capacity to deal with. Yeah. Um and that then, yeah, that's what you know it compels him to do what he does at the beginning, and that then eventually where he gets to, you know, on his journey about learning what leadership is, yeah, he ultimately learns that he must uh you know abdicate it. That's that's a great concept. Amazing, right? And so yeah, the chance to to work on a problem play like that and ride the coattails of Tyne Raffaella and get to break it open in this way in the hills of California. Yeah, I think I peaked.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

You peaked on those hills. Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

This is Lipton Classics. This is where we go through the uh ten Inside the Actor Studio questions, which were devised by the French journalist Bernard Pivot and were made uh obviously uh famous by Inside the Actors Studios by James Lipton. And so we are about to start when Rowan puts his coffee down. The first question is what is your favorite word?

SPEAKER_04 36:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Uh what is that? Look. Look? Look, look.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

I guess I don't know. Look. Like it's just what came to mind. Like a filter.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

It just like look.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

Oh no, I I meant like look.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

So like seeing things, look.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Maybe, yeah. Um that's the most interesting answer every day. If someone, if you're if you're if like you're with someone and then like we're walking down the street and I all of a sudden go, look. Isn't that like really that's you know, scary though?

SPEAKER_02 36:52

But that is a great answer. Yeah. I I totally get what you mean. Yeah, like it fills you with some like sort of impetus to to look. Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Look, look and see. Look, look. That's my answer. I like that. Look. I gen Yeah, it's got a lot of uses. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

I like that, actually. All right. What is your least favorite word? Maybe. You are giving the most interesting answers. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

Maybe what's my least favorite word? I was gonna say no, but like that's that just seems maybe is worse. Maybe is worse. Because it's nothing. The ambiguity of it. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe anything wishy-washy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Anything wishy-washy? Maybe. Maybe. Possibly. Could be, potentially.

SPEAKER_04 37:37

That's two words, though.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Could. Could. That's it. That's my least favorite word. Could. I don't know. Could. I don't know. Could that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

What turns you on?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Um, my beautiful wife.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yes. Leah? Leah. Oh, that's so sweet. What turns you off? Um, wish wash. Wish wash. Wish wash. Wish wash. So so the same as almost your least favorite word. You don't like anything ambiguous.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

It's so funny. I mean, that's a good thing. Or like no, because actually what turned it to commit. Maybe that you said something. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. Yeah. I don't know what it is. It's like, no, because like, I don't know. I mean, I feel like everything we were talking about about why I like I I love the ambiguity of things and I love the buttons like what turns me on, turns me off. Oh god. Oh no. Oh, I'm gonna have to unpack this. The SM of it all. Exactly. Well that's what I mean. Freud would have a field day. Um no. I think I just don't like wish wishwash in terms of like in terms of life. Life, like wishwash when it comes to like art and literature and stuff like that. All about all about the maybe, all about the ambiguity. All about that.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

I totally get what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

But but if someone's like, yeah, we'll see, or something like fucking no, which one is yeah, I like things to be No, but I get what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Like the the wishy-washing. Like I love when characters and plays are like deeply rooted in what they believe and they're just having strong arguments. And I feel like there's not as many this is so generalized, but I do think there is some hesitancy sometimes in like contemporary playwrights to write characters that have very strong ideals because I hate to say it, but like cancel culture and stuff like that. If you put something on stage of like someone who's like really, you know, just like has very extreme views or something like that, it can be seen as like unpalatable or like non-commercial, so it won't sell tickets or whatever. I'm like, but we need that, we need like characters like going at it and arguing their points. Um and just like wishy-washy in between, no one's really like committed to an ideology sort of thing. Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe that's like what's what who are you then? Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 40:00

The only way to actually wrestle with um true ambiguity is to like take take a stance and take a stance and see what what you actually believe.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

The collision of those stances. I mean, that's what theater's all about. It's about strong opinion and finding out what your own opinion is within that. Right. Um what is your favorite curse word? Hmm. Um we talked about yeah Say it. Do it. Say it. I'm I guarantee you someone said it already.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Um it wouldn't be the first time I've said cunt comes to mind. But yes. But other people have said it. Cunt comes to mind, but but all- I have such a huge opinion about this.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

But it's it's not, I don't think it is my favorite. I think it's it's cliche and it's classic coke, but but like fuck, fuck. It's got it's just as fuck. It's like you know, like fucking Sprite is amazing. Dr. Pepper is amazing, but like Dr. Pepper. Classic Coke is. I see, I see Dr. Dr. Pepper's like con Sprite is shit. Classic classic Coke is fuck, right? Maybe it's the maybe it is the I totally get what you mean of Coke and fuck, but it's like fuck is fuck is the central curse word of which emanates other it's cola.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

It's classic coke. And cola already owns Sprite and Dr. Pepper and all these others as well. So it makes total sense. Because then you you could be like fucking cunt, fucking you know, that sounded terrible actually, how I just used it then.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

That didn't honestly. It can be an adjective, it can be a verb, it can be Yes, it can be anything.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

It can be all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Here let me get on my soap.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Multifunctional. I'm gonna get a little on a little bit of a soapbox because uh I we've talked about this before. Not you and I, but another uh uh a couple other guests have said cunt as their favorite. And I I also like this word, I don't use it a lot, but I'm s it just there's something about it that sings, and I I think it is misogynistic not to use it. And here's why. Here is why. First of all, it's a very widely used term in England, and it's a like a term of endearment to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Yes. I think Australia too.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Yes, I think it is a sign of American misogyny that we it's honestly, I've like so it's so serious. I'm here for it. I'm like I but honestly. I think it is a sign of American misogyny that we are so willing to say, oh, you're a prick, you're a dick. And we're totally okay with someone saying that. Even in an endearing way, like, oh god, you're such a dick. Okay. Like, but when it comes to the term price, I see, I see. We we think the notion of female genitalia is so unpalatable that it that it's considered offensive. I see. And to and to my mind, I'm like, oh, right, is massages. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 43:03

It'd be worse if someone called you a pussy than if they called you a person.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Yes. Right, right, right. Yes. And we do consider that to be the case. And I'm just like, well, why?

SPEAKER_03 43:10

If if it's I just I drink classic Coke, man. I don't know what to tell you. I'm all about the case. I don't know what to fucking tell you.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

I don't know what to fucking tell you.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

And maybe, you know, maybe I'll get lambasted in the in the comments or whatever. Not that people leave comments on this. Um like and subscribe. Oh, maybe they will. Um, but uh I that's just how I feel. I hear you, man. I hear you. I think it's a cunting disgrace. I'm gonna try and just you are turning them into the yeah, I'm such a fucking fucking feminist. Um my god. I hope I don't get in trouble for that. Um you edit. I know I do, but I'm gonna leave it in. I'm I'm all about free speech, baby, especially in this administration. Ooh, we're getting political. Uh oh. Uh what sound or noise do you? Love.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Well, um, I've always loved um ice hockey. Growing up in Canada, I I love the sport of ice hockey. And so that the a good slap shot, a good like stick meeting puck. I totally know what you mean. Austin Matthews one timer from the dot. Oh my god. It's be it's a thing of beauty.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

My dad used to play uh hockey with his friends all the time, and so me and my brother would go and s like sit and watch them play. And so yeah, I totally get that. Yeah, either the horrible stick.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

Probably the slap shot, but also like, yeah, that when the puck ricochets off the boards and then echoes throughout the maybe it's also like calling upon childhood memories too, because I would play ice hockey as a little kid. Yeah. I have you know fuzzy memories of you know 6 a.m. games that my dad would take me to to some rundown rink somewhere, you know, and and the sound of the puck ricocheting again, you know, echoing through the halls or through the through the uh rink. Yeah. Um it sort of does something to me. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

That's a great answer. Um what sound or noise do you hate?

SPEAKER_04 45:01

It's um it's sort of a nails on a channel. I mean a nails on a chalkboard thing, but it's it's the um you know it's when you've got you know when you like old sorry, I'm putting the mic away from my face. No, it's okay. Like packaging, plastic packaging for like a toy or scissors or something. That squeak. Well, then you rip off the back, but you don't manage to pull it completely away from the hard plastic. So then there's that fuzzy, like sort of thin, fuzzy paper that you have to then try and uh perforate. Uh-huh. That that scratching along the fuzzy cardboard. It's very specific. In packaging. Fuzzy cardboard. You know what I mean though, right? Like I sometimes away and it's like, oh great. You're not talking about styrofoam, right? No, I'm talking about, you know, like what an action figure comes in, how it's like it's placed on sort of cardboard, and then there's a plastic sort of casing that goes over the action figure, and it's usually tied in by like wire. Like the colour. Oh, you know what I mean? Yes. And then you've got to peel the cardboard away from the plastic, but if you don't get it all, it leaves this like thin film that you then can't peel unless you poke. And every time you try and poke it looks like that.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

Yeah, it's that one. That one. That's my favorite. That's my least favorite.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

It's got to be the most specific one I've ever heard. I love it. Um What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Oh, that's a good question. Maybe like I'm not smart enough, but like uh Are you stupid and dumb? I'm stupid and dumb. But like, uh Leah and I have talked about this too. Um something in the world of like archaeology, something in the world of like history. But is that because of Indiana Jones? 100%. But but but but that that's that's it's an honest answer. It's like I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

I I don't know Imagine how exciting it would be to actually uncover something that people have not seen in hundreds, many thousands of years. Like that would be thrilling.

SPEAKER_04 47:01

I think there's a there's a there's the the common denominator here, I think, is like this sort of spirit of discovery of like trying to figure out the unknown, right? Yeah, and so uh um I think that's what it would be. But even if it's like I said, I'm not smart enough to to actually do it. Um and even if it wasn't Indiana Jones out in the field trying to dig up buried treasure or whatever, but even just like yeah, maybe some kind of like historical textual analysis or something that you're trying to solve a mystery from history. Yeah. Whoa. History's mysteries.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

History's mysteries. This is gonna be our new show, uh ABC Thursdays at nine.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

So it's probably not even an archaeologist. I'm just sort of I use that as my frame of reference because I just want to be Indiana Jones. I love it. But something in the history of the streets.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Wait, aren't you playing the new Indiana Jones game right now? It's amazing. You were just telling me about this the other day. It's amazing. I gotta watch it. The Great Circle. Go get it. The Great Circle. It's so funny. I'm sure that is the one with Troy Baker as I don't know who Troy Baker is. Oh my god, you you do. I do, sorry, Troy. Troy Baker, also, like is he the actors? Does like the mocap? Yes, he's like he's one of the greatest video game actors of all time. Dude, he's a big thing. He plays Joel in The Last of Us. Oh. He's the bad guy in Far Cry 4. Okay. Uh which you know, which was a little controversial, but oh, the the Christian nationalist one? Oh no, the the the one that takes place in um oh god, Tibet, I think. Oh, yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um he's an extraordinary actor. Cool. Like he's such an uh he can do so much with his voice. Dude, he sounds just like Harrison Ford. It's a good one. I know, it's it's it's incredible. Yeah, yeah. It's incredible. He's so good.

SPEAKER_04 48:31

Dude, doing mocap would be cool. Maybe that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

That's what I want to do. That's what it is. I that's one I've I've gotten to do one motion capture job, and it was for Cheetos.

unknown 48:41

Really?

SPEAKER_02 48:42

I got to play Chester Cheetah. Not really, though, because what I can talk about this because this was years ago. And this this was so this is one of the most bizarre experiences. Actually, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a moment to talk about this. Okay, please, please do. Um many years ago. And this was this is this will tell you how much I think or I hope the industry has changed because this was a simultaneously like a really cool job that I got, and then I got very nearly dicked over. Um I got to play Chester Cheeto or Chester Cheetah.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

Chester Cheetah!

SPEAKER_02 49:17

And I was in a mocap, they were looking for someone who could do an impression of Chester Cheetos, you know, like that. Yeah, that was it. And and uh so I sent in this thing. I I told a story as Chester Cheetah.

SPEAKER_04 49:29

Was it about daddy falling into the pond?

SPEAKER_02 49:32

My father fell into a pond and I was never the same. Um it was dangerously cheesy out there. Uh, so is this joke. Uh, and so I sent in this thing, like doing an impression of Chester Cheetah. They liked it, and then I had to come into the office that I was doing the mocap for. And they were like, as a callback, they were like, just do some backstory on Chester Cheetah. Like, just tell us a story. And I was just like, okay. So I made up this backstory that I was jealous of my brothers who were really fast runners or something like that. Oh, because he's a cheetah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, I don't think it was so bizarre what they were asking me to do. And I was just like, okay, this is the backstory. And I left going, I'm not getting that job. That was that was atrocious. Yeah, and I got the job. Um, and I genuinely think it was just because I could do the impression the best. Sure. But the reason they were asking me to do that was because it was supposed to be for this event, like a live Cheetos event or something where people could go up to a screen and I'm like in some studio somewhere, like talking to people, and I can hear them and maybe see them, I think was supposed to be the idea. And uh they could interact with Chester or whatever. I go and do like one day of rehearsal. Rehearsal, where I get into the suit, I do the whole thing, I can see myself on like camera. Oh, it's and it's mo cap. It's mocap. So and they were like showing me, and the guy, I will say the people that I was working with, the like the engineers for the mo cap were awesome. They were great. Uh, I'm not gonna mention the company just because I don't want anybody to get in trouble or whatever. I was working with the engineers, they're like, oh, it looks great and whatnot. And then they were like, okay, we're gonna we're gonna do a little presentation for the the board or whatever, the people who are like gonna be like do like guiding me through like how the event will be run. So essentially what they did was they set up a zoom camera or before before Zoom, it was just FaceTime. Um but like they had it set up so that they could see me as Chester Cheetah or whatever. And like they were getting ready and like they turned on the camera, and I just see like a boardroom, just like a a like a long table and uh just a bunch of empty chairs around it. I was just like, oh okay, people haven't shown up yet or whatever. I see like one person walking around, like trying to fix the camera on that end, wherever they were. I don't know where they were. Um, and then the the feed goes out. I was just like, oh, maybe they're just having some like trouble with like the feed or whatever, and that's what they said. And then like ten minutes later, one of the engineers just comes up to me and is just like they scrapped it. And I was just like, What? We didn't even do anything. You're like in the suit right now. I'm in the mocap soup, like getting ready to like do my chester. And and they're just like, Yeah, they scrapped it. They scrapped, and I was like, Why? What? I was like, What like we're just not doing it? Like we didn't, I didn't even say a word. I don't even know that they even saw the motion cap because there was nobody in the room. Man, it was very clear? Well, this is why I said that I said this. I was charged uh for not charged, I was uh my rate, my rate for rehearsal was one thing, and then the rate for uh performance, which they were considering that day as a performance, uh, was was much higher. And so when it they were like, we chose to cut the day, like we chose to scrap it, so that wasn't a performance day, that was just a rehearsal day. So it would have been like no joke, like a quarter of the paycheck. And I was like, that's unacceptable. That's crazy. Because the other thing, too, and this has happened, and people, if you're gonna scrap an idea or scrap a project or whatever last minute, just know that we as artists may have been offered another job that day, which I had been offered another job that day. And I'm like, I could have gone there and made money there if you at all just like made your decisions properly.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Um, and so I fought for that, and like ultimately, I think I only lost like a hundred dollars off of it. They still like discounted it because they chose to throw it out. But to this day, I'm like, man, that was just like so shitty. They were they were willing to just be like they cheetoed you.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Yeah, they cheeted me.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Do you at least get free Cheetos for Life or something? No, not at all. Fuckers. It was just like, it was just like a oh god, what a bummer. That was a flaming hot bummer. Bummer, dude.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

What profession would you not like to do?

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Oh man. Play Chester Cheeto. Politician. Oh yeah. Yeah. I guess.

SPEAKER_04 54:22

I mean, not that I wouldn't want to like be of you know, be a public servant. I don't think that's honorable.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

I just like how do you be like, I it's hard for me to look at some of like the the politicians I do like and are like, man, the people you have to deal with.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

Yeah, totally. And also, yeah, I changed my mind. I changed my mind because because it's actually I changed my mind. That's well, that's the first thing that came to mind, but I could actually go into politics more than I think I could like be like an accountant or something. Because I'm I mean I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Well, it's saying what terrible at what you not like to do. So it's not it's it's not necessarily about like your ability. It's not what I'd be bad at. I wouldn't like doing it, even though I think it what if you are a good politician, it is probably extremely rewarding. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 55:10

That's why I think I would like, despite more pitfalls in the political world, I think I would like the day-to-day of it more because I could derive a sense of meaning from it. Whereas I don't think I could do that bunch of humors. Yes, you know. No, I changed my I changed my answer. I changed my answer. Accountants. Accountants. Well, just because I don't know anything.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

And that would also probably not like it. I wouldn't go around the office and be like, I don't know how to do math. Anyone know help me?

SPEAKER_04 55:33

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Like, anyone do it? I hate this. I don't I'm an accountant, and I'm like, anyone know basic arithmetic? I got this thing called lung division. Pluses, minuses, an X's.

SPEAKER_04 55:44

Did you know they started adding letters to the chat? Um that would be me. So I would not enjoy it. Um I wouldn't be good at it, and it doesn't light my fire.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

And um I would also be terrified. Don't light my fire.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

Yeah, well, and I'd also be terrified I'd make a mistake and be like, Yeah, I can't be able to get it. Rowan, did you carry the one? I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

I didn't. So probably I just threw it away. That was what you're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

It's an extra one. Who needs it?

SPEAKER_03 56:13

Well, what does it mean to be one with something?

SPEAKER_02 56:15

What does it mean to really carry the one? To carry one. He's like, dude, you need to be an actor. Yeah, exactly. Like, get the fuck out of here. The final question. If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearlie Gates? So St. Peter's like, yeah, Rowan, you're you're in.

SPEAKER_04 56:38

Such a good question. Is this on the inside of the actor studio?

SPEAKER_02 56:40

Yeah, this is the final one. Yeah, these are all the the these are the ones. Um really pithy. Silly country.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

Yeah, I was gonna be wanted to be like, you dog. Or like you stupid. Or like, or or about time. Or about time. Oh, finally you dumb. Like about time would be. Yeah, that's nice.

SPEAKER_04 57:05

Um nice of you to show up. Finally. He's like, I finally get to hang out with you. You know what? I would love for you for God to go. Well, there goes the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

They're fucked down there, aren't they?

SPEAKER_04 57:20

No, not that I've showed up. He's like, Oh, there goes heaven. Um no, I'm kidding. Um uh yeah, probably something along those lines, probably, like um about time.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

About time.

SPEAKER_04 57:29

About time. About time.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

The party can really start.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Or uh you again? Um You again. You again. That would be wild. That would be crazy. That would be cool. You again would be cool, actually.

SPEAKER_04 57:41

Oh, well, I know that would actually wouldn't be heaven, because then I'd spend the whole time being like, what is what does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 57:45

And that's wishwash. We know I don't like wishwash. Then you'd be like, God, what's up, bro? You gotta is that a maybe?

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Yeah, what does that mean? What are we can't be a maybe, man. What are we? You can't be maybe gut. You can't be a maybe gut.

SPEAKER_04 57:58

Yeah, no, ultimately, it's a fucking great question. What a fun question. Yeah. Ultimately, I think about time would be about time would be great. Because I'd feel welcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it'd be like, I you belong here, you're always destined for here. Yeah. But it took you a long time.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

It might it might depend on how they say it, though, you know. Like about time. True. Like, well, was I late? Yeah, this was not the plan. This was not the plan. You were here supposed to be here years ago.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Right, right, right. Like, I tried to kill you with your appendix, but no. No, you just had to get that removed. Fucked up your vision, but contact lenses.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

No, I'm kidding. Oh I love it. Yeah, about time would be would be great. I love it. Because there'd be a sense of humor, you know. Yeah. I would be expected. Yeah. I'm welcomed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and I've lived a long time. Yeah. You know, it's all of those at once in that phrase.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

I love it. Well, Rowan, this year is the end of the podcast. Anything you want to promote? Anything uh anything going on in the near future? I mean, if you if anything comes up, you can always oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

I'll hit you up.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

Yeah, just let me know and I'll I can add it.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

But no, it's a pleasure, man. I think this is a super cool thing that you got going on. I think it's a really like noble pursuit. Uh you're doing a great job, and I'm I'm just chuffed to be actually coming hang out and answer some questions. And I I, you know, talking about myself is not necessarily a strong suit, so I appreciate it. No, man. I I love it.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

I appreciate the the cutting together of whatever this is being to make me uh.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

Oh, this whole thing is gonna be a one-word story. I'm just gonna cut from all over this thing and make you say horrible things. Yeah. Do you have any idea how many times you said fucking punch?

SPEAKER_04 59:35

I was gonna say, Oh god, you could clip this whole thing together in such a way that um it could be a lifelong project. But um, no, it's super fun, man. This is super cool. It's my first time doing something like this. I love it. It's a lot of people's first time on walking me through it. And uh hopefully I didn't make too many stumbles.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

No, dude, it was great. Cool. All right, y'all. That's this week's episode of Working Class Acts. We'll see you next time.